Re: Re-2: [ObjectWeb architecture] Re: AW: Enhydra and Jonas

[Andre Freyssinet <Andre.Freyssinet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

markus.karg@xxxxxxxxx a écrit:

This thread makes me laughing a bit since sometimes history's repeating... ;-)

 

Maybe you all might remember that I lead as similar discussion months ago. I asked why not exchanging monolog API by java.util.logging API, because:

 

- It is nearly the same

- The first is only kown by ObjectWeb members/users and seldomly used outside ObjectWeb

- The latter is an official J2SE standard and such known and used by many people

    An official J2SE standart, only provided in JDK1.4, what about components
also used in non J2SE environment ?

 You wrote that monolog is much superior to the standard (but could not provide a proof).

Now you tell that monolog is a dead end and surrender to Apache logging?

 

Maybe you don't know, but java.util.logging is not a logging output system, but only a middleware that enables a common interface to different output systems. So the assumption is false that we could provide a Sun-backend, since java.util.logging isn't a backend at all but an API only. It is possible with few effort to attach new backends (NT Event, SysLog, Files etc.) to java.util.logging and to provide adapters to other logging systems (Log4J, Monolog etc.). Actually I am leading an open source project that implemented java.util.logging backends for NT Event Log and SysLog (Linux and Solaris) and that works well (not published yet). The implementation was a few ten lines.

 

So why not going the standards way and using java.util.logging now?

 

Have Fun

Markus

 

 

Original Message	processed by Tobit InfoCenter
Subject:	AW: [ObjectWeb architecture] Re: AW: Enhydra and Jonas (24-Okt-2003 0:07)
From:	A.Madl@xxxxxxxxxxx
To:	markus.karg@xxxxxxxxx (and 1 other)

 

Hmmmm.....

 

Do you really think it is a ONE LOGGING FOR ALL decision ?

 

I really would prefer a way to support different APIs (because they simply are there...) with very efficient "adapters" but ONE central place for runtime configurataion (GUI) of logging levels for different parts (Jonas and Tomcat themselfes, web-apps, EJBs, etc.) AND configuring the direction of the logging output (file, console, NT Eventlog under Windows,...). Maybe to log4j or maybe to the Sun logging...or whatever..

 

Of course we simply could decide to remove the Enhydra logging API and recommend the usage of common-logging, monolog ..

 

BUT:

 

Jetty has another "LogSink" API...

Barracuda MVC framework www.barracudamvc.org (working perfectly with Enhydra XMLC !) has another logging API

 

I think this story will never end...

 

I think when we talk about logging we should think a little bit more about the job of a system-administrator that has to keep the beast up-and-running. Lets consider new services or ready to use web-apps that could be added to or used with Jonas by different communities. They may use another API... I think the goal of Objcetweb is to provide flexible components and infrastructure for other components and applications. If the administrator has to know all details of the implementation and configuration of logging in all parts of a big installation, the system will become very complex to manage. OKOK, I'll stop now :-)

 

Of course I do not have the perfect plan how to resolve all these issues, but I hope I could show that the topic is a little bit more complex than "common-logging or monolog" or the discussion of logging of Objectweb/Jonas components only.

 

And if I am thinking about web-app war-files, how can deployed web-app war-files have automatically new entries in the configuration application GUI for setting the application-specific logging level ? Is there some kind of standard for that ?

 

Greetings.

 

Alfred 

 

 

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Pierre-Yves Gibello [mailto:pierreyves.gibello@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Oktober 2003 19:02
An: Gérard Vandome
Cc: Madl Alfred; christophe.ney@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Raicevic Igor; FRANCOIS EXERTIER; Andre Freyssinet; Jeff Mesnil; architecture
Betreff: Re: [ObjectWeb architecture] Re: AW: Enhydra and Jonas

Gérard Vandome wrote:

Madl Alfred wrote:

  

Hi !

What about providing an "adapter" implementation for common-logging API to the monolog API ? The idea would simply be to "redirect" calls made to the common-logging API to monolog and in fact doing configuration and logging level setting in monolog (I like the Jonas Web Admin GUI for setting loglevels !).
    

It can be a good solution, if it doesn't introduce overhead.
I cc the architecture mailing list as I think the best is to move the discussion there.

  

This might work, but my opinion is we should move logging to common-logging.

This discussion has already taken place in the ObjectWeb architecture team, and many of us (not yet all ;) believe Monolog is a dead end now.
We do not need one more logging technology, Apache has gained the required momentum, not us. Also, some of our products include or use Apache modules, that already use commons-logging...

Of course, the JonasAdmin problem remains: the question is, do the Jonas team plan to move to commons-logging some time ? (Gerard seems to envisage it, at least...)
Providing the wrapper you suggest could be considered a temporary solution, then...

Regards,
 Pierre-Yves Gibello - ExperLog

Of course the implementation of such an adapter would have to be VERY efficient in order to avoid unnecessary overhead for logging calls !

Just an idea.

Alfred

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Gérard Vandome [mailto:gerard.vandome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Oktober 2003 14:14
An: Madl Alfred
Cc: christophe.ney@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Raicevic Igor; FRANCOIS EXERTIER; Andre Freyssinet; Jeff Mesnil; FRANCOIS EXERTIER
Betreff: Re: Enhydra and Jonas

Madl Alfred wrote:

    

Hi !

Christophe told me, you could possibly help me:

We would have some technical/architecture oriented questions for
integrating Enhydra 6.0 (the Enhydra application framework) into
Jonas/Tomcat in the area of "logging".

Jonas itself uses the "Objectweb monolog API"
Tomcat itself uses the "Apache common-logging API"
Enhydra EAF has ist own logging API for web applications (currently
implemented for log4j)

I would like to discuss the relationship of these APIs and possible
architecture scenarios in this area for the Enhydra/Jonas integration.

Do you know the best guy to talk to for these questions ? Could I call
him to discuss that ?

      

It is a very good question, and I am not happy at all with the current JOnAS situation which is still more complicated: JOnAS is also integrating Axis (which are using common logging) and JORAM and JORM (which are using Monolog). JOnAS will soon integrate JOTM (instead of the JOnAS embedded transaction manager) and C-JDBC which are using common logging..

Just an history to explain the current situation:
-ObjectWeb provide Monolog to be able to use either Log4J or JDK logger -then Apache provide Common-Log with the same goal

The curent  ObjectWeb recommandation is to use Monolog, but my personnal preference would be to move everything in JOnAS to common-logging. I cc François, Andre and Jef who have more technical arguments....

Gérard Vandôme
ObjectWeb Consortium www.objectweb.org Gerard.Vandome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx +33 (0)4 76 29 76 25
    

--
Gérard Vandôme
ObjectWeb Consortium www.objectweb.org
Gerard.Vandome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx +33 (0)4 76 29 76 25



  

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